[00:00:00] Dr. Jessica Singh: Welcome to the Holistic Physician Coaching Podcast. I'm your host, Dr. Jessica Singh. This podcast explores physician health, wellbeing, and fulfillment, embracing all aspects of the human experience. Just as in medicine where a single interaction can transform a life, this podcast is grounded on the belief that each coaching conversation has the power to inspire, heal, and bring about meaningful change. 

[00:00:35] Dr. Sarah Wittry is a hospice and palliative care physician, wife, and mom of four. Having navigated challenges like infertility, adoption, anxiety, and burnout as a physician mom, Sarah is deeply committed to empowering other professional moms to reclaim their time, energy, and joy.

[00:00:58] Through her platform, [00:01:00] Vibrant Humans, she helps women redefine what it means to be a good mom and professional, guiding them to set healthy boundaries and prioritize their core values. Her mission is to support women in creating a more vibrant, balanced life aligned with what truly matters to them.

[00:01:19] Welcome, Sarah

[00:01:22] Dr. Sarah Wittry: Thank you. I'm excited to be here.

[00:01:23] Dr. Jessica Singh: I'm so excited to be here and especially to learn from you for the conversation today which want to set the intention for listeners, Dr. Wittry is so gracious to be here to share her journey of motherhood. 

[00:01:37] Dr. Sarah Wittry: Absolutely. It's something that we don't talk about as much in medicine, but is a part of a lot of our stories

[00:01:43] Dr. Jessica Singh: Absolutely. Part of who we are.

[00:01:45] Dr. Sarah Wittry: A big chunk.

[00:01:46] Dr. Jessica Singh: Absolutely. I'd love to begin by asking if you'd share your journey as a physician mom.

[00:01:53] Dr. Sarah Wittry: Absolutely. So I'll try to give you a short version, and then we can dive in on other aspects. But [00:02:00] I always was wanting to be a mom. When I was young, I wanted to be a-- I thought I wanted to be a babysitter 'cause I liked kids so much. I was also drawn to pediatrics, so I just really have a strong passion for children.

[00:02:14] And I think like a lot of us as physicians, we tend to plan and be type A and want to have control over how things play out as much as possible. My husband and I got married second year of medical school and planned to have children at a very certain point in residency, like the beginning of third year where things were gonna be a little bit more, I don't know, time flexible was the thought, right?

[00:02:43] And so when I did not get pregnant month after it was kinda like, "This is the time," that was really discombobulating, I guess is the best way to say it. It was so unexpected to have infertility. I thought I took good care of myself, so it was just out of the [00:03:00] blue.

[00:03:00] And yeah, it's like navigating that and that path to motherhood through unexpected different situations and things outside of my control have been like an ongoing journey for myself. And we became foster parents. We welcomed a little boy to our home who was only one month old, and that was our first experience in parenting.

[00:03:23] And then fast-forward to today, where we have four kids. Two of them are from foster care and were adopted. One was the first little boy, and he's now nine. And then the second one that we fostered was a girl who came to us at the end of kindergarten. So she was like five and a half, almost six.

[00:03:44] And then I kinda had a surprise pregnancy in between there, and that's how Jude came to be, and he's now eight. And then lastly, I guess, to complete our family, we went through like secondary infertility, I guess you would call [00:04:00] it. And so I experienced going through, making decisions to do IVF to have our last little girl, and she is now four.

[00:04:09] So it's like not a straight line at all in any way timeline-wise. But yeah, I've grown so much, and I think that my pathway today both professionally and personally and my own growth has really profoundly been shaped by the experiences I've had building our family and just figuring out what that all means.

[00:04:31] Dr. Jessica Singh: What an inspirational journey. You had so many challenges, and I know this was just the highlights, and what stands out so much is at each step of the way, you found a way forward.

[00:04:43] Dr. Sarah Wittry: Yeah

[00:04:44] Dr. Jessica Singh: The first example you had mentioned when you to have a child with your husband, that maybe third year of residency, 

[00:04:50] Where did you find the support, either within yourself or around you?

[00:04:55] Dr. Sarah Wittry: Yeah. Looking back it's something I've learned is that [00:05:00] I didn't have very much support at that time, and part of that was just the structure of how things were set up. There was no other people in my residency cohort who were, like, even wanting to have children or thinking about children at that point.

[00:05:17] And so I remember feeling quite lonely not feeling like anyone else could really relate to what I was going through. And then I think there's a pretty decent amount of silence and kind of shame around infertility. And so back then I think that my main support was really my husband, and I was not sure how to... partially just because residency's so busy. There's so many other demands. I remember being very surprised and saddened that there weren't a lot of support groups or even just mentions of things when I would go to the OB and talk about different options and what I could do.

[00:05:54] And I think just mentally and emotionally, there was not a lot of support offered, and [00:06:00] know now that there are ways that you could get support. But I think a lot of it still is you have to seek it out yourself. And so that's one of the lessons I've learned, right, in life in general is just it's okay to ask for support, and you actually very much deserve support in whatever you're navigating, because doing it alone is really hard. And it's like there's a lot of grief and anxiety and uncertainty that you're navigating through infertility. And yeah, it's like I wish that I could go back in those times in my 20s and just share that message with myself.

[00:06:34] "It's okay to have support. It's okay that you're feeling this way." And so it's a lot of things now that I've worked through in therapy and in mentoring and coaching have helped me make sense of that period of my life more. But I think when you're in it, it can feel really challenging to access.

[00:06:52] Dr. Jessica Singh: Really appreciate your sharing this so candidly. It takes so much courage, and do it with so much grace.

[00:06:58] Dr. Sarah Wittry: Oh, thank you. I [00:07:00] think sometimes it's just messy, right? And it's we want these stories to be, like, tied up with a bow, and I just, I think I recognize that there's such a messy middle with no particular guarantee and outcome, and I think that's the challenge, but also it is so deeply human to have those periods, right?

[00:07:18] And to be walking through them many times without people even really knowing what's going on. And so, yeah, I think it's a place to offer ourselves compassion, as well as knowing other people are going through, maybe not infertility, but other challenges in their journey and questions about their path to motherhood and what that means.

[00:07:38] And so, yeah, I just think so much power when we have these conversations and are willing to share our stuff because it helps us feel supported and

[00:07:50] Dr. Jessica Singh: Absolutely. And even with this it's still like an elephant in the room among so many female you had mentioned, even though the incidence of infertility and pregnancy complications is so [00:08:00] much higher for us than for the general public. So it's, like you had mentioned, just so grateful to you for this conversation and sharing.

[00:08:09] Dr. Sarah Wittry: Yeah, of course. 

[00:08:10] Dr. Jessica Singh: Can you share a little bit more about your experience fostering? Was it during What was that like? How did you figure out how to do that?

[00:08:18] Dr. Sarah Wittry: Yeah. So we explored infant adoption and then international adoption and foster care adoption. And we actually... I think it was serendipitous in some ways, right? Because we were friends with people who had fostered and who had welcomed multiple different children for short periods, and then they were on the pathway to adoption for one of their kiddos.

[00:08:42] And so we just really got to have an up close and personal view of foster care. We explored international adoption probably pretty heavily, because that was just, something that we were curious about, I think. But then we realized there were a lot of ethical dilemmas and just things that didn't feel [00:09:00] quite right to us with some of the international laws and just things about the children and still their parents being alive, but just basically being unable to financially support them.

[00:09:11] And so that's what led us really to feel that, um, We knew that there was a huge need for foster parents and that they, were like in our city, in Seattle, where we were living. And so, yeah, it was a wild experience, to be honest. We went through, I think it was about nine months.

[00:09:28] I remember it being about the length of a pregnancy of going through foster care training. And I learned so much obviously just more about the needs and the system, the inefficiencies within the system, of course. Again, it's very complicated in terms of their desire is always to reunite the children with biologic family and biologic parents, if that's possible. And if it's not, then even their second, third, fourth options are to have any connection. So it could be like an aunt in a different [00:10:00] state or anything like that is that's their priority is to keep, kids with some kind of biologic family connection. When we had our son come, he was like a month old and he did not have any kind of visitation with parents because his birth father was actually deceased. And then his birth mother struggled with mental health addiction, things that made it really challenging for her to be able to show up in the ways that I think she would have wanted to.

[00:10:29] So yeah, there's a lot of complicated feelings that I have about what's right, what's wrong in all of this. But at the end of the day we just obviously wanted what was best for the little boy, and we were able to kind of expedite through things because there were no visitations.

[00:10:46] He had social work visits. It was like weekly for a while. It's a blur, honestly, 'cause I was in fourth year of residency, applying for fellowships and doing all sorts of things. But he was just such a little joy and such a [00:11:00] breath of fresh air for us, after having so much stress and so much uncertainty.

[00:11:04] It felt so joyful, yeah, for us to be able to parent him, and he was one of the happiest babies I've ever met. And he still just has the most lovely personality. So we just feel so, so blessed to have gone through that experience and be able to have him as part of our forever family.

[00:11:21] We were able to adopt him when he was just over one year old. And yeah, it's a crazy experience to navigate while you're going through it, and then of course, after. I feel like it's like a marriage is what I tell people. You get married, and that's really exciting. It's the adoption day, and then you're like, oh, and then there's life. There's parenting. There's, And then you add the complicated layers of how to talk to them at different ages and stages about their story, about the navigation of this identity that you have and sort of what that all means.

[00:11:50] And gosh, it's just been such journey to go through and figure out relationships with his biologic family and extended family [00:12:00] and just It feels like you're doing it in the dark. The only way I can say that there's help is, people that have done it and walked through it and just getting their experience is how I've best learned.

[00:12:09] Been part of communities of parents who are navigating similar waters and leaning on each other and knowing that nobody has a rule book for any of this, so we're just all doing the best we can and trying to use what evidence supports and what therapists recommend. It is an ongoing growth journey where I feel like I am constantly learning.

[00:12:33] Dr. Jessica Singh: Absolutely. And to do this still as a resident, all this time, all this effort, and you had mentioned, I don't know if you were in an environment where you could even share this huge part of your life so much.

[00:12:46] Dr. Sarah Wittry: Right. You know what's interesting is I think that there's also a lot of misconceptions and even biases around foster care, the biological parents, what this all means, 'cause I can remember being very excited [00:13:00] and sharing with different people in my program.

[00:13:03] And most people were supportive, but I feel like they didn't really know how to support me or how to really have conversations about some of it 'cause it was so, out of the box. They were so unfamiliar. But I do remember my program director talking to her and her saying, "People like us don't really do foster care." And I remember that being, like, really "What?" But I think what she was referring to was, like, there's this misconception that fostering is something that people do to make money or get a check from the government, and taking multiple children so that they're, like, supporting an income and doing it for the wrong reasons.

[00:13:39] And I just think that is so harmful in a lot of ways because, gosh, we have just so many children who need safe homes that have the resources to help support them in all of their different needs. And so, yeah, I felt like that was, like, a really insensitive, difficult thing for me to receive back then but I think, it was just coming from a place of almost [00:14:00] ignorance, like not knowing better.

[00:14:02] And yeah, I'm hoping that with more conversations people are understanding the depth of the need of good foster parents who are willing to put in the work and to show up for these kids because it's absolutely needed. And yeah, they deserve all of the goodness. 

[00:14:21] Dr. Jessica Singh: I feel so much warmth just in my body as you're talking, because obviously when people go into medicine, there's such a huge aspect of fulfillment, and able to have this huge source of fulfillment, this other such important goal for you. How did fostering-- I guess, as you reflect back on that time, finishing residency and going through all of this and knowing the environments, what did it bring you in terms of fulfillment, sense of purpose?

[00:14:49] Dr. Sarah Wittry: Yeah, that's a great question. I mean, I think that it really helped shift my perspectives and priorities, right? And [00:15:00] I think it definitely opened up a world to me of recognizing that what I valued and what I wanted to spend my time on was not going to be conducive to 60 or 80-hour work weeks for the rest of my life.

[00:15:17] And so it really helped me get clear on what matters the most and then how does that reflect in my every day, like my sense of when I show up and how I wanna show up and wanting to have energy left at the end of days for my children. Asher was about to be adopted when I found out I was pregnant and that was like in the back of my mind, I'm not gonna lie.

[00:15:39] I was like, there was... You know when you just don't think something's gonna happen and so it wasn't even like I was tracking cycles or doing anything like intentional where for a while I was like obsessed with it. It was just like there was so much else going on, I wasn't thinking about it and it just didn't even seem like a possibility.

[00:15:54] So when I found out I was pregnant and I had a one-year-old I was like, "Whoa!" "Things are [00:16:00] gonna get crazy." But I was getting ready to start the palliative fellowship and so I think I just really got clear on how important it was going to be for me to radically take care of myself and protect my time and energy, not in a way to be like selfish but in a way to be able to show up how I wanted to as a mom and as a wife and this recognition that like no one else is gonna do that for me.

[00:16:33] You know what I mean? Like my program and hospital systems. - They're gonna say, "Great. I'm glad you have kids. That's awesome." But like they're not gonna be the ones that are gonna protect that for me and design a career where that is valued. So I really think it just gave me perspective on if I want to have a certain type of life and be able to have certain amount of time devoted to family and kids on a [00:17:00] regular basis, like that's something I have to create. It's not necessarily just going to appear or be the default.

[00:17:11] Dr. Jessica Singh: Such a beautiful perspective because often we think about our identities as a physician, and so much of us is like, "Who are we if we're not a doctor?" And then when you think about it though, it's often these life experiences that give the foundation, the warmth, the love, and bring all this richness into who we bring as physicians.

[00:17:31] And so often you hear sometimes people talk about their physician identity on one hand, their mom identity or parent identity on the other hand, they're hanging out in two separate places. But you are sharing such a powerful experience where these identities not only integrated with each other, but it seemed like they inspired you so much.

[00:17:50] Dr. Sarah Wittry: Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. And I think that kind of trickles into the work I do in like hospice and palliative, right? Because we're [00:18:00] so often talking with our patient and the families having these meetings and this relationship building over time where we're really trying to get to the heart of what matters.

[00:18:09] And in that time, in those situations, we're talking about a more limited time, whether it's months or short number of years or just like at the beginning of a diagnosis that's life-changing and navigating the treatment plan and all the things that are gonna change and shift.

[00:18:25] And I do think there's so many corollaries with the identities that people have and what they hold to be their biggest priorities that they wanna protect. And I just started having all of these realizations or insights like during fellowship and then since then we do this and it's such beautiful, rewarding work to do with these people.

[00:18:46] I feel like it's very sacred and I feel so honored to be part of those conversations and facilitating these things. But it really made me like reflect on how we don't have to wait for that terminal [00:19:00] diagnosis to be able to protect what matters to us. And again, it's like almost unlearning the idea of this is just how it has to be.

[00:19:09] If you're working all the time and you're feeling exhausted and defeated and you lose that spark of what brought you into medicine, if you can turn it and say "What empowerment do I have to bring to the table to create the life and the schedule and how I wanna spend my days and my weeks and all that?"

[00:19:26] That's really where I believe a lot of our power lies as women physicians raising kids. Just knowing that you can create that for yourself. It's not easy, and it's definitely outside the box to be able to say "This is what I actually want. This is what I really care about." And because there's so much guilt and medicine just prefers that we would abandon ourselves, right? Abandon our own needs and desires and work endlessly and tirelessly and put our own needs, desires, families, all that [00:20:00] kind of at the bottom of the barrel. And I just think that is such a devastating pattern that I see in like the women I work with in coaching.

[00:20:07] So many of us have that conditioning that we've absorbed over time, right? To have these really high expectations of what we're supposed to be able to do day after day, and then somehow still feel like good and energized. It's just not realistic, and so I think starting to let go of some of those or reexamine and just question them about what does that mean to be doing it all or having it all is so vital and essential, and I think it's just this ongoing process. But I believe it's like some of the most meaningful stuff we can do because if we don't do it and we just go on autopilot and default we can go through a lot of years of our lives kind of doing that and feeling like something's off, but we don't really know what it is. And yeah, I believe it can have a lot of downstream negative effects on like our health, our quality of life, our relationships and just how we wanna live. So I'm very passionate about it.

[00:20:59] Dr. Jessica Singh: Can [00:21:00] tell, and it's wonderful that you get to do the work you do to help other people have awareness of this, especially physicians. I also didn't realize that until just a few years ago, where it's like often, especially physicians, we feel like we're failing, like you mentioned, 'cause there's so many expectations.

[00:21:14] And rather than continuing to criticize ourselves, why can't we make our weight lighter by realizing these expectations most of them are imposed on us by our society and organizations, and who says we have to? So what if we made our load lighter by just taking off some of them, like you mentioned?

[00:21:30] Dr. Sarah Wittry: Yes. Yes. No, I had some realizations where I was like, "Well, I have to do these things, and I have to do these things," and then I had mentors and coaches be like, "Says who?" And I was like, "Myself." Or it's just so internalized that it feels like it comes from you, but it actually doesn't, 

[00:21:46] Jessica Singh: absolutely.

[00:21:47] Dr. Sarah Wittry: Yeah.

[00:21:48] Dr. Jessica Singh: So incredible. It's also really I'm sitting here very humbled because i- as you're sharing, I just realized, like what a broad experience you've had. Because as you think of the journey to becoming a parent, you think [00:22:00] of trying to have kids and those who aren't, haven't had kids, then wanting to foster and adopt and having your own, and you've had this whole rich arc of being able to experience everything.

[00:22:11] It's such a rich life experience, and I'm wondering, what was it like for you? So you had gone through fostering first then you found out you were pregnant. 

[00:22:20] Would you be comfortable sharing your journey with the second pregnancy that you had?

[00:22:25] Dr. Sarah Wittry: Yeah. Yeah, the IVF? Yeah, absolutely. So at that time we had the three kiddos and we had moved from Washington to Ohio where we still are to start our real jobs, and I think that there was some grief involved with that 'cause it was like we didn't feel totally complete yet in terms of the number of kids, and we were wanting one more.

[00:22:50] We sat on it for a while. I think in parts I thought, Well, I was really stressed during residency, so I'm sure that it wreaked havoc on my hormones, and [00:23:00] made it challenging 'cause I wasn't consistently ovulating and all that. But there was a big part of me that felt like this one was gonna be easy or easier.

[00:23:10] And so we did not spend like a full year or anything seeing if we could get pregnant on our own. It was like probably five or six months, and then I just went to reproductive endocrinology and was like, "I think this is where we want." And we're at a different financial place at our lives, where we can like, we don't have to jump through all these hoops and be like, "Ah, we can't afford this."

[00:23:30] And so in that way, it cut the timeframe down. But it was still very important for me to process like the expectation not being met and like going through that grieving process but also the gratitude that like IVF exists and it's incredible, and it felt like easy in some ways, right?

[00:23:51] But it felt like I was cheating. I don't know if that makes sense. So I did a lot of like work with that just to get the support that I needed [00:24:00] to navigate decide to go ahead and proceed with it. And it was honestly a very smooth experience. Didn't have any like hurdles or failed cycles or anything like that.

[00:24:17] So I feel very grateful, and I know that is not always the norm with people who do pursue IVF. But for us it was a very positive experience, like I said, and very smooth. I also think the amount of times you had to go in for like labs and ultrasounds and all that, it would've been no way that I could have done that in training.

[00:24:36] And I can remember even actually like in residency going in to get a couple labs and ultrasounds, and then they were like, "Okay, we want you to come back in two days for another ultrasound." And I was like, "I can't." I was like, "This was so hard to get to this." And I started like bawling, right?

[00:24:49] Just being like realizing that like that was not gonna be possible with what was expected from me at that time. So it was a wildly different experience, I think, even to just be like [00:25:00] this is a lot. It's time intensive to go through, but I have the space to be able to do it now.

[00:25:05] You know what I mean? I have the support and just the maturity. I don't know, just a feeling in a different place to go through that pregnancy. And yeah, it was beautiful and amazing, and we're so thankful that she was able to come join us and complete our family.

[00:25:20] So I have only positive things in my experience going through that, but recognize that it was not the first time I was going through pregnancy or going through parenting. And so it gave me an appreciation for kind of what people navigate and just realizing how much value there is in community support and being able to just freely be able to ask questions when people are navigating different things and not feeling that sense of I'm the only one or I'm too scared to open up about this.

[00:25:55] Because I feel like if you have a safe space and safe people it can make all the [00:26:00] difference, right? Just to talk about the emotional aspects of what you're going through, 'cause it's big. It's big.

[00:26:07] Dr. Jessica Singh: Absolutely. Obviously all of these experience have had such a huge impact of your life, so many shifts. How has all of this shaped your journey up till now in the work that you're able to do?

[00:26:18] Dr. Sarah Wittry: Yeah. So I think that I always liked personal development. I was always into it and read stuff in residency when I could. It was like my free time instead of reading research articles, I was reading like self-help books. So it's a strong interest. But I feel like my parenting journey and some of the things that we've had the most challenges with have been just trying to blend the family, different backgrounds of kids coming to us in different ways with different needs and different stories has catapulted, in some ways forced me to have more growth than I would have probably ever otherwise realized, right? And because of that, and because of some of the [00:27:00] deeper struggles and challenges and things that I've navigated, I think has led me down the path where I am I don't know, I have such a broader perspective about my identity regarding professional ways that I can help people and serve people.

[00:27:22] So What I've realized is it's so much more expansive in what is possible. And the prescribed pathway to stay at my full-time job just wasn't gonna be it for me, and I knew that. So it was like trying to figure out a way to still have a hand in multiple different things that I've been passionate about while not over-committing and burning out has been, I think, what I've really been figuring out for the last few years.

[00:27:52] And realizing that there's no final arrival or destination has been a big lesson I keep [00:28:00] learning. And just being open to where my heart and my soul are leading me to serve and re-recognizing that different seasons are gonna bring different priorities to surface, right? If there's a season where there's a kiddo who really has a lot of struggles or needs, and I know I'm gonna need to devote more time to that, then having the flexibility to be able to do that is really important to me.

[00:28:25] And so, professionally, I have really made a lot of different pivots. You know, I'm doing contingent work now for palliative and hospice, so it's really flexible, where I can say "These are the days I want to come." And I love that so much. It far outweighs any of the benefits and things that I'm not getting.

[00:28:42] I figured it all out. We'll just say that. And I think a few years ago, I would've been like, "That's not possible." I need that safety, I need that stability, I need that certainty almost. But being able to, yeah, really expand my horizons and being able to say "I love coaching. What could this look like? How can I help [00:29:00] people navigate motherhood and medicine in their own way so that it feels as good as possible to them and the most professionally and personally fulfilling?" I feel like that's just a huge passion for me and has led me to think outside the box in ways to build a business and to learn from mentors and just I don't know. I think it allows me to be more creative as an entrepreneur to be able to package up some of the insights, experiences, like tools, practices that I'm like doing myself and fully realizing the need for, right? And like also the great benefits for. And then it's almost as I'm learning and continually learning so much more about myself and my journey it's really allowed me to access the mental health, emotional health, spiritual practices, stuff that like fits in medicine, but like we sort of have to keep that under wraps in the professional setting.

[00:29:59] So it's been a lot more [00:30:00] fulfilling to me to be able to have that place to be more creative and express myself more fully alongside the ongoing work of parenting. I feel that if you're gonna do it well and like in a way that aligns with your values, like you'll always be learning as a parent.

[00:30:17] You'll be unlearning and relearning. But also making time for like joy and spontaneity and just like things that kids help you with so much, right? To say "Oh, this was my plan in my head to do this tonight, but like we're gonna have a picnic at the park instead." Just be in the moment more. It's really helped me so much in that way.

[00:30:36] And like you mentioned too, your perspective has broadened so much, and those elements you get to work on for yourself, the emotional health, physical health, mental health, those parts you mentioned that are not often in medicine, having a more healthy life in general, have living a fuller life.

[00:30:52] curious what it's like for you as you work with physician moms in medicine, helping them navigate motherhood, and you have for [00:31:00] yourself and the way you've lived your life and created your life, have this broadened perspective, what do you see or commonly see physician moms carrying silently?

[00:31:11] That's a good question. The first thing that came to mind was guilt, like so much guilt and feelings of inadequacy, feeling like it's re- like they desire rest, and they desire relief, and simultaneously they feel like they can't have that because if they are resting or just taking a pause, there are so many things that are not getting done that they feel like are theirs.

[00:31:42] So I feel like there's patterns of a lot of that going on, as well as just this sense of because they're so incredibly capable they tend to silently take on so much responsibility both at work and at home. They're like a [00:32:00] dependable, responsible one, right, who's very good at managing details.

[00:32:04] And then it's this sneaky thing where they become like the default for everything in their home, in their household, with their children and also feel like they need to match that level of functioning in their job. So it's like there's mountains and mountains of responsibilities that they have and it feels very hard for them to get rid of anything, to shift things because it feels like if I drop this ball, then everything's gonna come crashing down. And so I think that's why a lot of them sort of look good on the outside, like it looks to everyone else people are constantly telling them, "I don't know how you do it all," "Wow, you're just, you're such an inspiration." And so they like wanna maintain that 'cause it's like that's the people's perception of them, right?

[00:32:55] But then they feel like there's something wrong with them because they are not feeling that [00:33:00] inspired on the inside. They do not feel like that daily level of just "I'm amazing, I'm doing it all." Like they feel like they are crumbling a lot of times, or they have no idea how long they can keep doing it for.

[00:33:11] You know what I mean? There's a lot of fear, I think, in just worrying and like having self-doubts about not being able to keep it up, like the kind of image as well as the roles that they're playing. Those are definitely like really common, almost exclusively, like I would say that women have some form of those things going on when they come to me.

[00:33:32] The part that's like challenging for me to watch and see is just that how long they've been carrying that stuff alone, I think. Not knowing that other people have similar struggles and different like ways that they're privately navigating. I'm glad that it's, I think it's shifting, it's just slow progress 'cause there's like that vulnerability of being like, "This is hard. This is really hard, and something has to change." That's the other thing is we're so scared of change because [00:34:00] it's so uncomfortable and it's so uncertain. It feels like we're diving into the unknown and so a lot of times I think people struggle or even suffer silently because they either don't believe change is possible, they don't believe it's possible for them, or they worry they worry of like the downstream effects, almost of caring, compassionate people, right? When we're in medicine, in raising kids, and like all the things.

[00:34:23] So just maybe we care so much about the people that we take care of, that we're worried if we shift anything, it's going to have a negative impact on our patients or our children. But I don't think it is healthy for women to put themselves at the very bottom for months and years at a time. 

[00:34:45] Dr. Jessica Singh: Absolutely. 

[00:34:46] Dr. Sarah Wittry: Yeah, I just think it's cool when you start seeing people making shifts, right? When they take those brave steps things that they didn't think were possible or thought that things would definitely go sideways, and it's like they can prove to themselves like little by little, like then [00:35:00] they kinda get that inspiration and motivation to keep going.

[00:35:04] So a lot of times it's just like those tiny shifts at the beginning open up their perspective to "I can do this. I can create what I want," and that's like probably the most rewarding part of coaching.

[00:35:14] Dr. Jessica Singh: And those tiny shifts are so powerful in residency, especially when there's less autonomy over the structure and expectations. And again, just having that environment where you feel psychologically safe even to talk to someone about this is huge.

[00:35:28] Dr. Sarah Wittry: Totally. Totally.

[00:35:30] Yes 

[00:35:30] Dr. Jessica Singh: For someone who is listening right now and maybe going through feeling alone or any of the other challenges you had mentioned, what is one first step you'd give to someone to have more self-compassion towards themselves, to be a little kinder?

[00:35:44] Dr. Sarah Wittry: So I think one thing is honestly making all the invisible stuff visible. Sometimes I think we want to gaslight ourselves into thinking we're not doing that much or not carrying that much. But just taking five or [00:36:00] 10 minutes to type out or write down all the things that you're carrying, and then looking at that objectively and even imagining that you're looking at a friend or a colleague that they wrote that and what do you think or what do you see when you are, like, looking at it all together, right? All the things that you're juggling, carrying in your head expecting of yourself. I think that creates some almost instantaneous self-compassion, because if nothing else, it's like people are able to see, "Oh my gosh, it's more than I realized." It's a lot for any one human being. And it almost gives them that visual to be like, "No wonder," right?

[00:36:39] It's like validating "No wonder I feel tired," or, "No wonder I feel alone," or not full of energy and zest and I think that opens up that space for compassion 

[00:36:52] Dr. Jessica Singh: So powerful. Thank you so much, Sara. I know we've covered so much today. To wrap up this conversation, [00:37:00] what is your takeaway message you'd like to leave for physician moms or physicians in training or students, and also for coaches who coach physicians?

[00:37:08] Dr. Sarah Wittry: Yeah. I think that honestly, remembering that you, this sounds crazy, but it's, I think people need to hear it, right? Is like you matter in your own life. And when you are able to recognize that truth and bring it into your day-to-day, into your schedule, into your to-do list, right? Recognizing that when you are taking care of yourself in a consistent way, in ways that align with what matters to you, you will be so much more able to not just fulfill the expectations or your duties and responsibilities, [00:38:00] but you will be so much better of a version of yourself, like so much happier and content have like more energy because you are paying attention to what your own needs are.

[00:38:12] And there's of course gonna be seasons where it's challenging to maintain those things, right? But just kinda coming back to again and again, like I cannot be the best version of myself at work or at home if I am not putting myself on my calendar. And then the other thing that I think is so important for women, especially in medicine who are considering having kids or maybe a new parent, is just like taking radical ownership for how you want to feel and what you want your life to include. I like to have people like visualize different aspects of like home life or professional life and [00:39:00] things that they would really want to be part of that. And realizing that you giving yourself that permission and having that vision is so powerful because then it gives you something like a North Star almost, right?

[00:39:14] Instead of doing things by default and just like being on this train on autopilot where you're like constantly running places you will have like intentionality and purpose and vision about how you want to live. And then recognizing like it's okay if you're not there yet. It's okay if that feels really far off.

[00:39:36] But knowing like where you are, where you're starting, and then where you want to be is so powerful, and it's like a practice that you can come back to again and again because it's like there's no way that you can even have that life if you don't even give yourself- permission of what it looks like or what it could look like, right?

[00:39:55] And it's so important for it not to be what society tells you it should [00:40:00] look like. It needs to be from your core and from who you are, who, what your essence is. But I believe that, at least for me, that I had a lot of blind spots in that area or a lot of limiting things. And so having mentors is profoundly important because they can hold the vision for you, and they can also help you where you're getting in your own way as you're on the journey to creating that.

[00:40:25] Dr. Jessica Singh: Thank you so much, Sarah. This is incredible and so insightful.

[00:40:31] Dr. Sarah Wittry: Awesome. It was fun to be here. Yeah.

[00:40:34] Dr. Jessica Singh: Very grateful and honored to learn from you. Thanks for sharing your journey.

[00:40:37] Dr. Sarah Wittry: Thank you, Jess.

[00:40:38] Dr. Jessica Singh: Thank you for listening to the Holistic Physician Coaching Podcast. This podcast is dedicated to making coaching more accessible and to support both physicians and those who coach them. Subscribe to access exclusive subscriber-only episodes, including physician coaching sessions, [00:41:00] coaching debriefs, and coach mentoring sessions that offer valuable insights for professional development for coaches.

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