[00:00:00] Dr. Jessica Singh: Welcome to the Holistic Physician Coaching Podcast. I'm your host, Dr. Jessica Singh. This podcast explores physician health, wellbeing, and fulfillment, embracing all aspects of the human experience. Just as in medicine where a single interaction can transform a life, this podcast is grounded on the belief that each coaching conversation has the power to inspire, heal, and bring about meaningful change. 

[00:00:34] Dr. Thompson, it's such a gift to be here with you today. To begin this podcast, would you like to do some grounding and centering together? 

[00:00:44] Dr. Michelle Thompson: I would love to do that. What an excellent way to begin. 

[00:00:48] Dr. Jessica Singh: Thank you for the wonderful idea. 

[00:00:51] Dr. Michelle Thompson: Absolutely. We all need it, right? That's one thing we know for sure. We need our breathing and our grounding and centering before we begin, so [00:01:00] thank you.

[00:01:01] Dr. Jessica Singh: Of course. So with that we'll extend an invitation just to get comfortable wherever you are. Keeping your eyes open or closed. Bringing your awareness within

[00:01:17] Noticing your breath.

[00:01:24] Feeling the coolness of the air as it enters your nose, and the warmth as you exhale

[00:01:36] Observing any thoughts, any sensations in the body that you may be noticing

[00:01:48] Honoring them, acknowledging them

[00:01:53] And as you exhale, releasing them.[00:02:00] 

[00:02:04] And perhaps on the next breath, inhaling more deeply, observing the abdomen expand, and exhaling completely, observing the belly collapse.

[00:02:31] Continuing to breathe slowly and deeply at your own pace.

[00:02:42] Visualizing with each breath oxygen going to each and every cell, bringing life-sustaining energy. And as you exhale, releasing whatever's not suiting you at this time.[00:03:00] 

[00:03:04] Inhaling deeply and exhaling completely.

[00:03:18] Just scanning your body from the top of your forehead, slowly making your way down.

[00:03:29] Giving gratitude to each cell, each organ, each body part for all the work that it does in keeping us alive and functioning without us telling it to.

[00:03:58] Breathing in warmth and [00:04:00] kindness, and exhaling that warmth and kindness to the space around you.

[00:04:16] And I'd love to close this opening grounding with an intention of gratitude for this present moment. Gratitude for this opportunity to be here together, to share and learn with the intent to help and heal. If there's anything you'd like to add to this gratitude intention, feel free.

[00:04:43] Dr. Michelle Thompson: It was beautiful. I have nothing to add. 

[00:04:47] Dr. Jessica Singh: Thank you so much. When you're ready, go ahead and wiggle your fingers and toes, and open your eyes

[00:04:58] Thank you. 

[00:04:59] Dr. Michelle Thompson: So [00:05:00] good. So good. Thank you for that. That was beautiful. And it's nostalgic. That was the way we met. 

[00:05:09] Dr. Jessica Singh: Yes, in that mind-body medicine training. So grateful to have met you through that Center for Mind-Body Medicine workshop. 

[00:05:17] Dr. Michelle Thompson: Yeah, absolutely wonderful.

[00:05:20] Dr. Jessica Singh: And so with that, let's begin. For those who haven't had the chance to meet you yet, Dr. Michelle Thompson is a triple board-certified physician in lifestyle medicine, integrative medicine, and osteopathic family medicine. She is also certified in Blue Zones, mind-body medicine, and psychedelic medicine, and integrates culinary medicine and mind-body practices into her clinical care.

[00:05:48] Since 2006, she has been deeply involved in medical education at the University of Pittsburgh Medical Center, teaching and mentoring medical students, interns, [00:06:00] residents, and attending physicians with a focus on prevention, whole person care, and lifestyle-based approaches to health. As the founder and medical director for UPMC Lifestyle Medicine, she is leading the initiative to place self-care in the center of patient care and employee health.

[00:06:22] She is changing the way medical education and residency is taught, placing lifestyle medicine at the center of their training, and overseeing the lifestyle medicine residency curriculum for family and internal medicine training programs. She served as chair of medicine and currently vice chief of staff for UPMC Horizon and Jameson.

[00:06:47] As the champion for UPMC Physician Thrive, she is a fierce advocate for physician wellness and stopping burnout. Dr. Thompson was featured in The New York Times on several occasions for her work [00:07:00] in physician burnout, the workshop she's created, and mind-body skills groups for physicians, and implementations of AI in healthcare.

[00:07:09] She was also featured in the recent documentary, Going Om, discussing the health benefits of sound therapy as a tool in healing. Michelle, it's such a gift to be here with you today. 

[00:07:21] Dr. Michelle Thompson: Yes. I'm so excited to share this time, really, in the idea that we're really going to help so many people together and change really the way healthcare is observed and delivered, and know that the future is definitely brighter each and every day.

[00:07:40] Dr. Jessica Singh: And this conversation too I'm so excited about, because as much as we've learned mind-body medicine together, I will continue learning from you, and this conversation is near and dear to the heart through the lens of motherhood we'll focus on. And so I'm grateful to you for being here and for sharing your journey, and would love to begin if you could share your [00:08:00] journey as a physician and as a mother.

[00:08:03] Dr. Michelle Thompson: Yeah. Well, it began very young. I actually had my son when I was 17 years old, and so, definitely wasn't something that was an easy path for me. But it was the best decision I ever made in my life to become a mother and to really just give the gift of life to another human being, and it has been life-changing for sure.

[00:08:32] And he continues to also be my biggest teacher. And so the things that I think we're gonna talk about today really are not the fact that the parent always has all the answers. Sometimes we need to really look at our children too. They may have some answers. And so it's that really openness to building stronger relationships, like looking at life through different lenses, [00:09:00] breaking generational trauma.

[00:09:02] Again, just like healthcare wasn't one way it's different now, right? Like, healthcare is different now, and we want it to be different. And how do we make it different? Well, we make it different by just steering the ship in a different direction. So, for me, being a mom has been the best blessing that I have ever been given.

[00:09:21] And I always say the hardest thing I've ever done in my life. There was no rule book, and especially as a young mother. I went through undergraduate with him and also medical school and residency with him. So I often say to him, I really put him through the ringer. Imagine, right? Like, it's hard enough for us to get through medical education, undergraduate and residency, but I just took him with me and off we went. So yeah, I'll pause there.

[00:09:52] Dr. Jessica Singh: So much joy in life. And when you talk about steering the ship differently in medicine, there's also that you allow [00:10:00] the space for that to happen. Mm-hmm. And so when you share having your son at the stage you did and having him go through all those stages with you, those hard times, how did becoming a mother shift how you saw the role your career had in your journey in medicine, obviously your dedication towards it?

[00:10:21] Dr. Michelle Thompson: Yeah. Well, I chose to be a physician actually because I was a young mom, and I was really viewed through a lens of, "She doesn't know what she's doing," and, "She is not gonna be a good mom." That stereotypical, judgmental sort of shaming of a young mom lens, and I felt that, and I just wanted to really be a different physician.

[00:10:46] My son had sleep apnea when he was four months old, and the doctors and the s- the nurses, they really just ... you could feel the judgment in the room. And I [00:11:00] just thought to myself, "I can do better than this." Like, I really can give every human that I'm around a safe space and an opportunity because all of us as human beings have been through something in our lives, and all of us deserve amazing care.

[00:11:16] And so that was my decision, was to go into medicine to be able to take good care of myself and my family and to, just change the feeling of healthcare. And I haven't really thought about that, that's really what I did. I mean, I guess I really ... when we go back and look at it, that was 34 years ago, so you're gonna be able to calculate my age, but, it really was for me life-changing, I wanted to give him a better life. I was raised in poverty, and my mom worked three jobs, and we hardly had anything, and I wanted him to have a brighter future. I wanted him to have more [00:12:00] opportunities. I came from a family where there wasn't really anyone educated until later in life my grandmother got educated.

[00:12:06] And I remember when I decided to be a doctor, my grandmother, my grandmother on my dad's side, she said to me, she's since passed, my granny, she said, "People where you come from don't become doctors." And I said, "Oh, well, that's what I'm gonna do." And I, that's what I did. So my other grandmother was very supportive and helped me and went to college with me to enroll, and I remember just thinking to myself, I have to do what?

[00:12:36] I have to dissect a human body?" That was scary. I'm like, "I'm not sure if I can do that." And I remember her saying to me, "You can do anything you put your mind to doing." I'm like, "Okay, I'm gonna do it." And so, yeah, I did undergraduate at Youngstown State University in three and a half years with a kid and working.

[00:12:54] Early on, my mother was working three jobs. She was not available to help [00:13:00] me physically. He went to daycare. He went to a person's home for daycare, which was nice because he was in the home setting. But then in the evenings, we studied together. He was r- he would sit with his books quietly back when there weren't, devices to be on.

[00:13:15] And it was a challenge to get through undergraduate with a kid and then medical school. It was hard to go to medical school from 8:00 to 5:00 and then come home and take care of a child and be completely attentive. That was probably the biggest challenge is, having enough time in the day to do it all.

[00:13:34] So, and I think he still looks back on that and feels that now it's in his sort of fibers of his being. And when I'm with him now, I'm like 100% with him. Like, there's not devices. I'm not distracted, and that came from us having open and honest dialogue through the years of, "What are you really feeling, in this moment?"

[00:13:57] And truly from my [00:14:00] mind-body medicine training, teaching me to be able to go inward and look at myself critically, but without intense judgment and shame, but really just understanding humanity and how we are where we are because of where we've come from and through, and the only way out is through.

[00:14:19] But can we have deeper, more meaningful conversations because we have awareness now of what we looked into the drawer and we're able to go back and go, "Oh yeah, that happened." 

[00:14:30] Dr. Jessica Singh: What you talk about so easily has taken so much work and to get to that point, and so I really just wanna hold space and acknowledge what you shared. 

[00:14:40] Dr. Michelle Thompson: Well, and you know, my son is such a wise human, and I think when I made changes in my own life, I wanted to be that change I wanted to see in the world. I wanted to be a good example. So when people ask me, "When did you change and become into lifestyle medicine and taking care of yourself?" Well, it was when I [00:15:00] became a mother because I wanted to really show him a different path in life, one in which that I was not shown on either side of my family, my mom or dad.

[00:15:09] And I thought I have to do better for him, and I have to learn, and I have to be open. And so, our kids are watching us. Whether we realize it or not, they're watching us, they're learning from us. And then sometimes when they give it back to us, we better listen. Because I remember times that he would say to me, "Mom, I was talking to you," and I was a physician on call, and I got distracted in the middle of a conversation because the call pager went off.

[00:15:38] Back in the day, there were pagers. Are there pagers anymore? I don't know if there are pagers anymore, but the pager went off. I returned the phone call, and I pushed him to the side while I was present answering my doctor call, right? And then he named it. He was like, "I was talking to you."

[00:15:58] And I was like, "Oh." [00:16:00] And then I learned, I have to be more present. I have to be more present. But nobody taught me that. They didn't teach us that in medical school, in residency, in our training, right? What did we do? And this is gonna come full circle into the work I do now. We took care of the human being that was in front of us despite our own needs, despite our own families, right?

[00:16:26] And so here I am having this conversation for the very first time in my life, and I'm thinking about, what do I do for a living now? It's rewriting healthcare. We take care of ourselves first. We take care of our families next. We take care of our patients next. And we speak about this so that those in the world understand that doctors are human beings, and that caring for ourselves is caring for others, and that's how we're really truly going to change medicine, by putting self-care in the center of [00:17:00] the way we do everything.

[00:17:01] Because we cannot, as human beings, whether it be, any one of us who does whatever work we do, we have to take care of ourselves before we take care of others. That's not selfish. That's mandatory, and that's truly lifestyle medicine, showing up for yourself every single day. 

[00:17:22] Dr. Jessica Singh: It's incredible to have had that wisdom at that stage. Obviously, it continued through life experience developing that wisdom, 'cause often finding out about lifestyle medicine, mind-body medicine, these are fields that I feel now is becoming more common if you're fortunate enough to be in a place like UPMC where it's introduced in residency or in medical school. For so many, it still gets introduced later in life. And so how did you realize that lifestyle medicine... you had said something so beautiful, I mean, everything you said was beautiful, but about how you wanted to give your son something that you didn't have before.

[00:17:59] [00:18:00] How'd you figure out that's where all the answers were? Were like in the lifestyle medicine and mind-body medicine and in the self-care? 

[00:18:06] Dr. Michelle Thompson: Yeah, wild question. So I was an integrative medicine physician before I was a lifestyle medicine physician. So I worked at a massage therapy school while I was in medical school feeding us, my son and I, because, I was a single mom at the time, and I needed to work and go to medical school and raise him.

[00:18:26] And so I became integrative. I mean, I blended Eastern medicine into Western all my whole career. And then when I came out and I was practicing integrative medicine and lifestyle medicine became a thing I was like, "Oh, wow, well, this is what's gonna break into the system," because some people may not like acupuncture or buy into aromatherapy or yoga, tai chi, qigong, herbs, supplements, any of those modalities, but you cannot argue the six basic pillars of lifestyle medicine.

[00:18:56] We all need them. They are non-negotiable. Sleep, [00:19:00] exercise, nutrition, stress management, substance use, and connection with others. And so when I started learning this, I thought to myself, "I have to get board certified in lifestyle medicine because if we're gonna change healthcare, it's going to be because we're going to implement these six pillars that no one can argue in a mammoth system of 100,000 employees, and in our communities and in our current attendings and in our medical students and our residents.

[00:19:26] They may not practice all of them or want to practice all of them, but they can't argue that they're necessary. So I did that next, and then I started my mind-body medicine journey in 2018, going to Food as Medicine for Women's Health, really wanting to learn for my own self, as well as the women that I take care of.

[00:19:45] And that was in Esalen in person at the time in California, and that was wonderful through the Center for Mind-Body Medicine. It was the first time I met James Gordon. And then I did Mind, Mood, and Food Nutritional Psychiatry at Kripalu Yoga School. And [00:20:00] then everything went virtual. Then COVID happened, and then it was like 2020, like, wow,

[00:20:06] I did my first mind-body skills group with Dr. James Gordon in the midst of the pandemic as I was frontline family medicine. Truly at that moment in life I was an integrative lifestyle physician that practiced a lot of wellness, but I got thrown back into the frontline of sick care.

[00:20:22] And so I began breathing with every single patient as I was, seeing them. And so if I saw 20 patients a day, I did 20 breathwork with with my patients at the start of the visit, grounding us and centering us, really coming back to ourselves, teaching them. Before I used to do it occasionally when we needed it, then it was, like, mandatory.

[00:20:42] Everybody gets it. If you don't want the breathwork, you don't get me, because I'm gonna show you that I'm gonna start with me because it's necessary for me to be here for you. And so I think really that probably opened my eyes more to the self-care that we really needed.

[00:20:57] And at that same time was when we [00:21:00] were launching lifestyle medicine residency curriculum at the University of Pittsburgh Medical Center, putting it into family medicine. And our chair at the time, Dr. Tracy Conti, which I'm forever just so grateful for her wisdom and vision to put this and bring this into our healthcare system medical school residency and to develop the department.

[00:21:20] She said to me, "I want everyone to understand that self-care is mandatory for all of us." And so that's my job. That's my job, right? Like, somebody ... She always says she handed me keys and said, "Here, just build. Just drive." And so that's what I began to do. I just began sprinkling lifestyle integrative and mind-body medicine everywhere I went, leading meetings with breathwork practices, doing more in the physician wellbeing space.

[00:21:46] I had already been in the space for probably three years prior to that. And here we are and I also had done lots of podcasts through that time, and I share the story about my son. Let's go back to motherhood, right? [00:22:00] So there were moments throughout my life that my son would say, "Mom, let's breathe together. Mom, are you taking care of yourself? Mom, did you get out and move your body today?" All the things, and I remember one day I'll never forget it. I was standing in the kitchen and I began... He was telling me, he's like, "Mom, you've got too much stuff going on." And I said to him, "You don't understand," because at that moment my grandmother was dying, and I had working, and it was COVID, and I just started crying.

[00:22:31] And I was, like, frustrated that he was, like, feeling a certain way, right? And then I looked at him and I said, "Thank you. You're right," tears streaming down my face because he named it, right? And he was brave enough and strong enough and wise enough to be able to say, "Mom, you've got too much going on." And I was like, "Ooh, I need to come back here."

[00:22:54] And so I think that's the beauty in motherhood. That's the beauty in leading. And I know you're doing [00:23:00] coaching work. What do you do in coaching? You bring people back to themselves, and that's mind-body medicine at its finest. So job well done doing the coaching and putting mind-body medicine into the coaching space.

[00:23:15] Dr. Jessica Singh: When you talk about that journey, I know you had mentioned your grandmother as a big source of support, and what a gift to listen to your son honor who he is and to take his words as truth, right, as a mirror to our lives and to work on that for yourself. Were there any other supports or to share your journey as you were going through this from the lens of being a physician mom?

[00:23:37] So like in undergrad or in residency and later on, was it something that you were able to share this part of your life with at work while you were on the journey to being a physician and still in training, or was it something you had to feel you kept inside? 

[00:23:52] Dr. Michelle Thompson: Well, let me go back. In Youngstown State, I really didn't have anyone. I met several friends, and they came to my house [00:24:00] to study, and so they knew because I was a mom that I was not partying, right? I was doing the mom thing. So just friends, but they weren't parents. They didn't have children. In medical school, I had Dr. Stephanie Asbury, who was like a big sister to me. She was one of my professors, and she also was a single mom, and she had help from her family in Erie, and she was just like a big sister. And she's still like my big sister in medicine, and I still will call her. I love her. I love her dearly.

[00:24:32] In residency, I will share that I went to Mercy Hospital, which is an UPMC Mercy, and it was a beautiful family medicine residency that is no longer open. It was a wonderful family medicine program, very supported. It was very family-centered and focused. So I think that is key, is to have the support around you in your family medicine residency. We [00:25:00] had somebody, I will say that was supportive in doing our balance groups Sherry Holland, who is one of the m- I don't even know, actually. She's masters in, social work and counseling and, so she was always my person that I would go to. I remember during my residency, my sister went to Iraq. She was a military police, and I remember going in and talking with her when I was feeling like I couldn't keep all the balls in the air.

[00:25:26] So I think inside of the programs, I think the support, you need to try to find your people that you can lean on and be vulnerable and share. I think that's the other big piece. We have to be more human with each other, and that's what mind-body medicine does in its finest.

[00:25:44] If you join a mind-body skills group I always say, like, and I lead them actually now. I teach them inside of the hospital system covered by insurance. I always say to the group, "Thank you for allowing me to be human with you." It is like my favorite [00:26:00] place to be is because I'm with you being not Dr. Thompson. I'm with you being Michelle. I'm with you being a human. I have to facilitate. I have to make sure that I keep the space safe and hold the space for others, but I get to also share, and I get to talk about my own, where I am, what are my emotions, and what's going on in my life, and I don't have to just push it all down and keep going.

[00:26:24] Dr. Jessica Singh: There's such a beautiful thread as you talked about your journey as being a mother starting young and then carrying with you through medicine. It sounds like that's really, like, planted the seed for this beautiful blossoming of you being able to stay authentically you and creating this career in medicine the way you want and making systems change.

[00:26:46] And so as you think about physicians as they go through motherhood or parenthood for the first time or any time, what do you often see physicians carry that maybe they don't have to carry so much that you can [00:27:00] change through either self-advocacy or system change? 

[00:27:03] Dr. Michelle Thompson: Oh, that's an excellent question. So first of all, perfection. We don't have to be perfect. None of us are perfect, and to be human is to be messy. And to be human is so hard, and it's okay to name that. You know, When I was just talking to my students recently, one of the things that I was saying is the only way we rewrite these narratives is to have the conversations that are challenging, and so getting comfortable with the uncomfortable.

[00:27:33] Even if we think about maybe look back 10 years ago with the whole LGBTQ+ movement, some of us were confused. We didn't know. But how did we understand? We got curious, and we asked questions. And we may say, "Well, I'm not really sure about this but can I ask you the questions?"

[00:27:53] And it's the same now. The medical school education and residency education, there should not be bullying. There should not be [00:28:00] hazing. And if it's happening, we need to name it. And we now have trauma-informed care inside of University of Pittsburgh School of Medicine, which I'm so happy about. You and I didn't learn that in our programs.

[00:28:12] To me, trauma was the trauma that was happening, that the helicopter was next to my call room, the pagers going off, and I had to, jump out of my bed when I was sound asleep and run to the ER and take care of the patient who was burned heavily or was missing their arm because they were in a trauma. That was a trauma to me.

[00:28:30] But now understanding that trauma comes to all of us, and trauma did come to all of us if we lived through 2020, right? COVID was a global trauma that then reactivated so much childhood trauma. But understanding trauma, understanding the ACE scores. There's an excellent book called Childhood Disrupted that I love. And then Oprah Winfrey's book, 'What Happened To You?' Is also a really great book to understand trauma and how we carry that in our bodies. The Body Keeps the Score is another great book. Dr. James Gordon's [00:29:00] book 'Transforming Trauma: The Path to Hope and Healing.' I think it's really important for us to be able to understand these things so that we can rewrite the narrative, and we teach narrative medicine inside of our group medical visits at UPMC.

[00:29:13] Why?

[00:29:14] Because we want to rewrite our own narrative as well as we want to rewrite the narratives in healthcare. And as the leader in the space or facilitator, we're also listening to our patients, deeply listening. Because that's how we change things is by really truly listening. And it's important that they also listen to us as well because they don't often realize that we are humans too, and that is also spreading the message of, changing the narratives in healthcare and changing our world 

[00:29:46] Dr. Jessica Singh: It puts so much autonomy in the physician to change the narrative because then it's not necessarily, yes, the system's so much part of it, but it's not necessarily.

[00:29:56] I'm sure you hear this often how, "Oh, I'll wait until [00:30:00] after I'm done with all my training and whatnot to think about having a family," and how certain parts of our life have to wait until we're done. And it's just so inspiring speaking with people like you. Thank you so much for your courage to share, because all parts of life happen without planning, without trying to make things perfect, as you said.

[00:30:18] And it's so allowing space for that while being a doctor just makes you even more of a stronger doctor if you allow it to. 

[00:30:26] Dr. Michelle Thompson: Well, and I will tell you that my son is now 34 and does not have children yet, and he's waiting for the perfect time. And I keep telling him, "It's not gonna be, like, you're, I mean, you're never gonna have all the money.

[00:30:37] You're never gonna be..." It's not gonna feel like, if I would've waited, who knows, I would have never had him, and I feel like that. So I'm so grateful that I had him when I had him and I apologize for taking him through it. And I honor the fact that I didn't give him an early, easy path to drag him through all of that, and that has helped [00:31:00] us to become closer.

[00:31:01] We talk things out, and we talk about really the, I mean, and that's really what I think is important in mind-body medicine, is understanding why he is the way he is because of what I might have done to him that I maybe didn't mean to do to him along the way. But I did try to take good care of myself. I did try to be a good example. I did try to be a good mother but I wasn't perfect, and I say that. I'm sorry. I wasn't perfect. But I also say, "You know what? I'm, I wanna do better every single day of my life." And I always, tell him, every day is a brand-new day, and when we look back at the four agreements, your best is good enough, and your best is gonna change from day to day.

[00:31:39] And I really at the end of every day went to bed saying, "I gave my best to him every day that he was alive," and my husband. Let's not forget I'm a wife now, and I've been married for, we just celebrated 25 years, so he came into the mix. I do try to show up for myself and take good care of myself, and then take good care of my family, [00:32:00] and then take good care of my patients, and then work with my students, my learners, my medical students, residents and attendings.

[00:32:06] Because I think that's the other thing. Oftentimes they feel hopeless and helpless that the system won't change, but listen, I have built a path inside of a major healthcare system that was not there. I think that's the other thing I want to leave with everyone today. If it's not a path that's built, build it and don't give up because the girl who came from a family that you don't become doctors has now built a program that didn't exist inside of a healthcare system and is rewriting healthcare as we know it, medical students and residency education and physician wellbeing, really honoring the fact that we all deserve good care in life. 

[00:32:43] Dr. Jessica Singh: Absolutely.

[00:32:44] And what you've done I mean, you had mentioned too, for residents and for attendings, depending on what fields they're in, that feeling of hopelessness. You've mentioned the six pillars of lifestyle medicine. Sometimes, obviously, depending on specialty and lifestyle, even after training, it still feels like, how can I [00:33:00] incorporate these six pillars into my life?

[00:33:02] But that you've been able to structurally do that in education during residency, for instance, or med school, which is the hardest time, arguably, along this pathway, just gives so much inspiration, again, to anyone listening that there is room for change. 

[00:33:17] Dr. Michelle Thompson: And there's no perfection in that either, right?

[00:33:19] Every time I'm working with a patient in lifestyle medicine, nobody has all their six pillars of lifestyle medicine perfect. You just begin wherever you are. I mean, I wear my sleep tracker to make sure I get a good night's sleep. I've got my treadmill desk over here that I jump up on, and I walk and work. I take walking meetings. Do you need my eyes? Do you need my ears or both? If you don't need my eyes, you don't get my eyes. I'm gonna take you out on a walk, and we'll catch up so I can move my body and get away from the screens. Again, that's another way of rewriting the narrative.

[00:33:50] We could sit on Zoom and Teams all day long. I'm 100% virtual these days. So, I see if you need to show me something. And I've had people say, "Could you please turn your camera on?" [00:34:00] And I say, "No, I'm sorry. It's the only hour in the day I get to move my body, and I need to take care of myself. Sorry." I will if I really am needed in the space to do that. And so again, I think it's all of that. It's just continuing to know. And then as a menopausal woman, let's just name that. Sleep does not come easy to me anymore. Just like, I'm so excited when I get a good night's sleep.

[00:34:24] Yeah, and stress management, like, all of these things are really important, and I think just continuing to try to do better each and every day of our lives. I think that's why I got into the work of psychedelics because so many physicians can't reconnect with themselves. There is a lot that happens to us in our training to disconnect our mind, body, self. And so mind-body medicine is wonderful, but with treatment-resistant depression, anxiety, I learned of the psychedelic ketamine-assisted psychotherapy space to really help in physician wellbeing, [00:35:00] burnout. And so that was why I went and got trained to learn about that as well, for those who really can't get to the spot to do the work.

[00:35:09] There's a lot of physician suicide. We know that. My goal in doing that work is to prevent people from taking their own lives. It makes me so sad to see that we dedicate our four years of undergraduate, our four years of medical school, our residency training, and then we lose ourselves. I think we have to look at whatever we can look at to reconnect to back to self. So that's a big passion for me. 

[00:35:36] Dr. Jessica Singh: And it organically evolves because after all the education we go through, if you do another piece of education, it obviously serves a huge purpose, and so it's such a wonderful- Yeah

[00:35:45] resource to offer. 

[00:35:47] Dr. Michelle Thompson: Yeah. 

[00:35:48] Dr. Jessica Singh: I'm curious specifically, have you seen at UPMC or any other organization with respect to lifestyle medicine either curriculum or changes from the system? What have you seen in terms of [00:36:00] supporting physicians who are pregnant or postpartum, just supporting physician parents?

[00:36:06] Dr. Michelle Thompson: Well, the time is there, right? They get the time off, and they can take extra time if they need it, which I think is really important because you don't get that time back. It goes so fast. I can't believe I have a thirty-four-year-old, so I think just remembering to take the time that you need and, that time is to be cherished, so it's really valuable.

[00:36:26] A-and I think it's also when I look at that time in life, I also think, if we struggle with things like grief as well, we oftentimes go back to work too soon. And I think that just honoring our emotions. So if you take the Project Will of Emotion and look at your emotions, can you really honor your emotions?

[00:36:45] And I think that's a really important place for all of us to start. It's in almost every slide deck that I walk out into the world about, talking about mind-body medicine and improving emotional intelligence and reconnecting with ourselves [00:37:00] because, only we know what we need. No one else out there knows what we need, and so we have to use our voice and ask for it.

[00:37:06] We have to be brave. We have to be vulnerable. We have to be courageous, and that's how we change the narratives and the trajectory of the paths for everyone. I always say, like, in the end I'm gonna be gone tomorrow. I'm gonna retire at one point. Everyone else that I teach along the way, they're the future of medicine, and I hope that they continue to take what they've learned along the way and be those bold, brave humans who are just gonna just trample different paths down and break down the walls and the barriers and just make it different, make it more beautiful, make it more self-care, more mind-body, more integrative, more lifestyle. All the complementary integrative modalities with drugs and surgery on the outskirts, right, as the last resort. 

[00:37:52] Dr. Jessica Singh: Changing the system by supporting the future.

[00:37:54] QR and- Yes ... the trainees that are under you. And so given everything that we've talked about [00:38:00] today, what's your takeaway message for listeners, for physicians and those who coach and support physicians listening to this? 

[00:38:07] Dr. Michelle Thompson: I think just listening to yourself. I think that you are your own best healer. That's the work that I start every day.

[00:38:13] Every patient visit I say, "I'm not the healer, you are, and what we're gonna do is we're gonna activate your inner wisdom, your inner healer, your inner wise guide, your inner knowing, and we're gonna put you back together again in mind, body, and spirit, and you're gonna pave your own path and trust yourself. Trust yourself that it's the right path." And all the bumps along the way, well, they're okay too because they teach us to be more compassionate and more empathetic with others and really truly looking at everybody's humanity. Because again, we're all going to go through things. We're not going to get out of this world without having trials and tribulations.

[00:38:52] And so like looking at that and embracing that and really honoring that it is going to teach you along the way. And so, [00:39:00] I think again, being comfortable with the uncomfortable, right? I just had a really rough transition when I left family medicine and went into lifestyle medicine completely, and I was like, "What have I done?" It was a challenging, challenging transition. It was a staffing problem. The program was not built and i'm like building the plane and flying it, and it's falling apart, right? And you're like, "Whoa." I'm checking in the patients. I'm checking out the patients.

[00:39:27] I'm asking, "Would you like to come back on a Monday or a Tuesday?" Like time of day. Like, how is this happening that this is what I'm doing at this moment? But what did I do? I got through it, and I took myself away for 48 hours, and I had a pause and a reset. I shut down my phone. I reconnected with myself.

[00:39:46] I did all the things. I practice what I preach. I did artwork. I did sound therapy. I did meditation. I did nature. I did yoga. I did food as medicine. I had a wine tasting with olive oil and vinegar. And [00:40:00] I came back out on the other side going, "Ooh, that was hard. What I just went through."

[00:40:06] But what I knew was I knew I needed a pause. And so, I've t- I've done that when grief hit me, I took 24 hours away and, so even if you can't get 24 hours, if you can't get 48 hours, you can get one hour to come back to yourself to find yourself again.

[00:40:21] So please don't lose yourself along the way in the world of medicine, and know that you are the most beautiful and important thing you're ever going to own, and you have to take good care of this one gift, this one body that we get to be in this lifetime with. 

[00:40:37] Dr. Jessica Singh: Thank you so much. I think those who have gone through med school or resident, any part of physician training, they know that sometimes with friendship it's like

[00:40:45] Well, now virtually especially, maybe you haven't met in person or maybe your talks are few or far between, but it's like reconnecting with a like a loved one each time, even no matter how much time has passed. And when you think about leadership or how much of an inspiration it is to do what you [00:41:00] have done, yes, you are supporting the future and also an example that things can change, especially in such a well-known academic system.

[00:41:07] Yeah. I'm so thankful for being that change that to see in the world. It's so inspiring, and it was such a pleasure to speak with you. 

[00:41:14] Dr. Michelle Thompson: I hope everybody takes it and ripples it and just continues to go with it. So my website is fullheartedmedicine.org, and I have a lot of podcasts on there and meditative practices, breathwork, all of our tools that we have in mind-body medicine.

[00:41:28] I'm on Facebook at Dr. Michelle Thompson on Facebook, and Instagram, mtyogidoc, and I'm always happy to connect with all of you. I take students and residents for rotations, electives outside of the system. I teach the Harvard residents. They come and hang out with me. I think just be the change you wanna see in the world and know that all things are possible with hope and faith.

[00:41:50] Dr. Jessica Singh: Of course. And for listeners, information to connect with Dr. Thompson, the resources she just mentioned, everything will be in the show notes and accessible to you, so be able to connect with her and continue this [00:42:00] work.

[00:42:00] Thank you so much. 

[00:42:01] Dr. Michelle Thompson: Thank you. It's good to be with you. 

[00:42:03] Dr. Jessica Singh: You too.

[00:42:04] Thank you for listening to the Holistic Physician Coaching Podcast. This podcast is dedicated to making coaching more accessible and to support both physicians and those who coach them. Subscribe to access exclusive subscriber-only episodes, including physician coaching sessions, coaching debriefs, and coach mentoring sessions that offer valuable insights for professional development for coaches.

[00:42:34] Your support helps sustain this work. Subscribe and leave a thoughtful review at www [dot] holistic physician coaching podcast [dot] com. Sending you warmth and light.